The other thing it shows you is that, although there's this beautiful forest of coral, there are no fish in that picture.

When we heard the staff say that the traditional territory of Smangus is only about 12 acres, we regarded the notion absurd. The territory is absolutely larger than this measure.

And they're doing a pretty good job there in the forest, working all the byproduct of their industry with OSB and particle board and so forth and so on but it does no good to be responsible at the point of harvest in the forest if consumers are wasting the harvest at the point of consumption, and that's what's happening.